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Planted roots, walls erected.

February 1, 2010

I was once advised that, often times Christians, when presented with new views contradictory to their own, will all of a sudden become closed-minded individuals.  They’ll plant roots so deep and erect walls so high that even when presented with the plain and simple truth, it won’t hit them because it’s not how they view things.

You can see that they’ve dug themselves in when they start to argue about things that were once not relevant, and try to twist and bend Scripture to fit their views, and not the other way around. However, the surefire way to know that they’re at the end of the rope is when  start denouncing tried and true translations like the KJV and NKJV.

Take Daniel for example. In his “response” done with supposed proper exegetical and hermeneutical approaches he goes on to commit the same fallacies he’s accused me of.  Here are some reasons why I know he’s fenced himself in.

Point 1.

He basically downgraded Bibles that are based the Majority Texts or Textus receptus, saying the KJV and NKJV are no good for interpreting certain passages?  He better be have PhD in Biblical Languages or similar to make such a claim.  Unfortunately, he’s just a seminary student.  Why would he do that first of all? Because it contradicts the point he’s trying to make, so he’s getting rid of the ”faulty’ evidence, discrediting any “witness” against him.  Here’s what he said:

NOTE: My Scripture references will  be coming from the English Standard Version (ESV) unless otherwise noted.

The NKJV uses the same manuscripts as the KJV for its translation. These manuscripts have been shown to be inaccurate and not as reliable as more recent discoveries. For the record, the ESV, NIV, NLT, and NASB all render this passage as “the people” and NEVER as “Gentiles.”

Oh really? I’d like to see some citations and proofs of your claim Daniel.  Recent discoveries? Do you mean the Codexes Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, both kept safe throughout the centuries by the Roman Catholic Church, the same church that tried to destroy the Reformation, the same Church that believes in Mary’s virgin birth.  Is it possible that these manuscripts could be tainted?   I will do a post soon on the history of the Majority and Minority texts, and which ones I prefer.  (Here and here are quick summaries on why I use TR based Bibles.)  In the meantime, see here on the various contradictions between the two sets of manuscripts:

Which is more reliable: Majority or Minority Texts?

So when Daniel rejects my argument based on the idea that the N/KJV is faulty and “inaccurate”, then you know he’s pulling at straws.

Point 2.

Daniel goes on to ignore the context and continue to trump his claim that Paul was speaking to the Jews only, not Gentiles, ignoring the fact that verse 44 says the almost the whole city came to worship. He even stops short of mentioning it because he knows it’ll blow his case.

44On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. (NIV)

Daniel goes on to claim that Paul was first speaking to the Jews, then the Gentiles hijacked the meeting.  That couldn’t be farther from the truth.  Lets review the passage again:

42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul.

So from the above, let’s breakdown the events according to Scripture.

1. We can see that Paul was preaching at a synagogue, (Acts 13:14)

2. After the service, when the Jews left, the Gentiles approached him and begged that he preach the same thing the next Sabbath. (v42)

3.  Then, many of the people lingering around followed Paul and Barnabas.  Word got around that Paul was going to preach next Sabbath.

4. The next Sabbath, almost the whole city got together to hear Paul preach.

5. Some Jews (probably Pharisee’s) got jealous of Paul’s popularity or “rockstar status”, and started trying to discredit him by contradicting and opposing whatever Paul said.

The passage is crystal clear.  Only someone with an agenda would try to distort the passage to prove a point.

Point 3.

You know someone’s back is on the wall when they start claiming the OT is no longer valid for NT Christians.  So why bother with using a Bible with the OT in it Daniel?

Apparently Glenn thinks that NT Christians are under OT law, a tenet of the SDA “church.” But Glenn’s lack of OT knowledge and the concept of atonement, sacrifice, covenant and other doctrines is seriously clouding his ability to understand Scripture.

Wow, Daniel seems to knows me so well now. You want some NT advice, lets look at Paul’s writings to Timothy, in 2 Timothy 3:

14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Okay Daniel, what is the “Holy Scriptures” Paul is talking about.  He’s talking about what we now call the OLD TESTAMENT.  The New Testament didn’t exist until years later.  Paul is basically saying that the Scriptures (Old Testament) is all we need to know for salvation and to live as a good follower of Christ.

Which laws and statutes did Abraham keep? Gen 26:5

5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.

What stopped Joseph from lying with Potiphar’s wife?  It is God’s eternal law. So guess which laws Timothy would follow, God’s Law, aka the 10 Commandments.  They were still valid at that time, and valid today.  What gave them salvation, it was by their FAITH, hence Hebrews 11.

To me, Daniel has put up walls around him, but I’m praying that I’m wrong on this matter.  He’s got his back up on the wall so bad that he’s starting to accuse me of lack of knowledge and understanding of Scriptures. Pot calling the kettle black again?   It just seems to me that way to me, so I will heed Jesus’ advice in Matthew 7:6 and end this discussion, because frankly from what I’ve seen by his arguments, its the same old misinterpreted reasoning I get all the time.  All I hoped for was some reasonable discussion, yet it’s devolved into misrepresentation of facts and Scripture.   Further discussion wouldn’t be fruitful.

20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matt 7:20)

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2 Comments leave one →
  1. February 1, 2010 9:45 pm

    In response to Daniel’s pingback. I’ll have to take your word on the Greek, as I’ve never studied the language, and rely on limited lexicons and such. I’m also aware of the differences between the MT and TR. The reason why they get grouped together is the MT agree more with the TR, so for simplicity sake, I call them M and NU, like in Bibles. Do they agree 100% No. But neither do the Alexandrian texts.

    Even still if “Gentiles” was in the minority of texts, It still doesn’t change the context of the entire passage. Paul was speaking to the whole City pretty much, and that would likely involve a mix of Jews and Gentiles, not Jews only.

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